Pre-buys, Pre-Sales, and Consultation on Amateur Built Aircraft 

Contact Vic by email: vicsyracuse@gmail.com

Many times a pilot buying an Amateur-built aircraft isn’t certain of what to look for. Fancy paint jobs can hide damage or poor construction. Between my building, flying, and DAR experiences we can help you decide what is right for you and what potential problems you may see with a particular aircraft, whether they are maintenance/safety issues, flying qualities, or even supportability problems.

Please do not get emotionally attached to the airplane until we have completed the pre-buy examination. 

A surpisingly large portion of the airplanes for sale will not pass a pre-buy examination. We have performed hundreds of these examinations over the years and can help you make an informed purchasing decision. 

We are recognized as the go-to for pre-buys, especially on RV-type aircraft. We’ve traveled all over the USA (30 States) via airlines or RV-10. Every single customer will tell you it was worth it, and sellers have asked me to do their next pre-buy examination. Both the seller and the buyer win, as we will all understand the quality of the aircraft along with any potential safety items that need to be fixed.

It does appear that some types of airplanes are getting snapped up as soon as they are presented for sale. 

Don’t fall into that trap. There are gems, but be patient and together we will find the right aircraft for you.

All of our customers will tell you it is money very well spent.

As for RV’s, all of them really need a prebuy examination, especially the earlier models, the RV-3, RV-4, RV-6, RV-6A, and early RV-8’s, that were not prepunched . The later models such as the RV-7, RV-7A, RV-8, RV-8A, RV-9, RV-9A, RV-12, RV-10, RV-14, and RV-14A, were pre-punched, but still need to be checked for proper assembly and Service Bulletin compliance. All of them have some very critical areas requiring examination of proper building technique.

See Vic’s article on Pre-buy Inspections in  EAA Sport Aviation May 2022 issue below and the and KitPlanes April 2018. Both are at the end of this web page. He recently examined an RV-10 kit advertised as 95% complete. The riveting was so bad throughout the entire aircraft that it is a restoration project. The buyer dodged a big bullet on this one. Unfortunately, a first-time buyer purchased this kit a few months later without a prebuy examination. He got a second opinion, confirming the results. He was out $35K.

Consultation services

• Call ahead so we can have discussions on exactly what you are looking for, including your pilot experience, your equipment needs, and types of aircraft you are interested in.

• Together we will help you zero in on a few choices and then help determine how you should move forward.

Pre-buy Examination

• Includes a list of items needing repair or actions recommended, either prior to purchase or at some time in the future. This examination is to help you make a purchasing decision.

• We make these examinations a priority for the buyers and sellers so that I will not cause any delay in the sales process.

Pre-Sale Examinations

• Have an airplane that you need to sell? Let us examine it and help you determine what might need fixing in order to command a fair market price. About 50% of the airplanes we examine end up not being bought due to the list of discrepancies discovered during the pre-buy process. Almost all of them are fixable, but it tends to delay or even sour the prospective buyer on the airplane. By getting this examination completed before you even list the aircraft you are way ahead of the game, and we will talk to any prospective buyer for you. It will certainly shorten the sales cycle for you, and perhaps even command a higher price. 

Testimonials:

You did a fantastic pre buy that saved me from buying an unsafe build 
and I am now in a different gorgeous RV7A happy as can be. 
Robert S. (Colorado) 

I’m still absolutely IN LOVE with the RV8 you helped me to buy and did the pre-buy on. Every time I go up I feel like there oughta be a law against someone having this much fun. Aerobatics, instrument flying, sightseeing in the mountains of the Pacific NW, trips with my wife, it’s impossible to have a bad time up there. Seth L (Washington)

I have called Vic many times over the last two years for advice and he has always willing and able to help me out. He is a master
at Advanced Flight Systems, The Garmin GPS systems, and avionics. Having built many RV’s and mastering incredible panels, he is the go to
person for advice.

I would highly recommend Vic’s services to anyone.

-John P. (South Carolina)

I recently sold my RV-10 aircraft.  As we all know an important aspect of any aircraft ownership change is the pre-buy inspection.

In my case the pre-buy inspection was done on behalf of the buyer by Vic Syracuse of Base Leg Aviation.  

Vic’s inspection of my aircraft was thorough, and efficiently completed.  The result of his work was instrumental in the sale being completed smoothly.
I believe the buyer is confident he is getting a good airplane and I am confident he is in good hands as he becomes safely acclimated to his new airplane.

I can without reservation recommend Vic to anyone looking for someone to complete a pre-buy inspection or any of the other many services offered by Base Leg Aviation.

 

This Article Appeared In Vic’s Checkpoints column in EAA Sport Aviation May 2022 Issue

The Value of a Good Prebuy

I’ve written many columns, and even a book, on prebuys. The common message I have put forth in each of them is that it is important to have the prebuy done by a person who is knowledgeable on the aircraft. A checklist is of paramount importance. If there’s not one available pertinent to the type, then try using FAR 43, Part D as a guideline. It’s important to not wing it, as I guarantee things will be missed. I am going to use this month’s column to help drive the point home.

I see about 250-300 different airplanes each year as part of my maintenance, DAR, and prebuy activities. Most of them are well-built and well-maintained by owners who have a real passion for aviation. However, there are times when I must remind myself that this is amateur-built and experimental aviation. Sometimes it is not at its finest.

The most recent and shocking example involved an RV-6A that was towed to our shop one evening after landing. I had been asked about doing a prebuy on it, but since it was in California, I declined, as I am not traveling commercially due to COVID. It was going to be the buyer’s first airplane. Being new to amateur-built aviation, he managed to find a DAR in California who was willing to do the prebuy inspection. Once that was completed, the aircraft was purchased sight-unseen, and the buyer found a local ferry pilot from Falcon field (KFFC) to bring it back with him from California. Falcon Field is located near Atlanta, so it would be a great cross-country trip to get some time in the aircraft.

Lest you think this column is just self-serving because I do prebuy inspections, you might want to sit down before you read the next sentence. The aircraft was towed to our hangar because the propeller departed the aircraft as it was in the flare for landing. I had left for the day, but my son, Nick, was still there. He remarked that he heard it making awful noises as it came down final, sounds that he had never heard from an airplane. He lost sight of the aircraft behind some trees as it touched down, but another customer saw the propeller depart the aircraft. Luckily, the ferry pilot immediately reduced the throttle and landed uneventfully. (Well, almost. The co-pilot’s left side brake didn’t work. It turns out the brake reservoir was empty.)

The story goes that they noticed vibrations at various rpms on the trip from California, but could get them to go away at 2400 rpms. This particular flight was the first flight after landing at KFFC. T the purpose of the training flight was to do some air work, including stalls. The new owner then planned to fly it home to Auburn, Al. During the stall series, the vibrations intensified, and the decision was made to head back to the field. That certainly ranks up there as one of the best decisions I’ve ever heard about!

I couldn’t wait to get back to the shop in the morning to investigate, all the while thinking about how lucky they had been on the trip home. There’s a lot of desolate terrain between California and Atlanta, not that the outcome really matters where the prop might come off. Surprisingly, the composite prop and spinner showed minor damage, and I was happy that the spinner was still attached, as it meant the bolts should still be there.

My initial thinking was that the prop bolts had not been properly torqued when it was installed. There is no logbook entry for the composite propeller installation. At some point we know there was a metal Sensenich propeller installed. Twenty hours prior to the sale there is a logbook entry stating that a Sam’s James cowl was installed, along with a metal propeller crush plate “for W&B.”

All of the prop bolts were inside the spinner. The safety wire had all been broken, and three of the bolts were sheered, with the remaining three all having been stripped of their threads. The aluminum spacer had severe fretting in multiple places, which is caused from the propeller being loose. The drive lugs on the spacer had “oblonged” the holes in the propeller. Clearly, this propeller had been loose for quite some time.

Careful inspection of the front of the propeller showed evidence of washer indentations into the propeller hub, indicating that the propeller had been installed at one time without a crush plate. Wooden and composite propellers require a crush plate! Keep in mind that a metal propeller had been removed, so there was no crush plate. I could also see that the forward spinner bulkhead was deformed from the bolts and washers, plus it was not an entirely flat bulkhead as is common on the RV’s. It had a little ridge on it, which I think came into play to set up the eventual failure.

The installed crush plate for “W&B” was central to the failure.  The problem here is that it was a 7” diameter crush plate, while the propeller needed a 6” crush plate. This 7” crush plate now sat on that ridge line I mentioned, keeping it slightly above the propeller. Even with proper torque applied to the mounting bolts, there was no way this crush plate was going to fit tight against the propeller hub and properly secure the propeller to the flange. After 30 hours, it all finally let go.

There’s a big lesson here for new owners, whether you built the airplane or not. Yes, one of the attractions to amateur-built aviation is that we get to do our own maintenance and modifications without a lot of oversight. But we must remind ourselves that that freedom also comes with responsibility. Some changes and modifications have the potential to cause severe injury or death, and perhaps it is wise to get some help or advice. Luckily, nobody got hurt here, but it is still going to be expensive, as Lycoming has a mandatory engine teardown for propeller separation. The teardown and rebuild, along with labor to remove and install will be close to $15K.

I also have some concern with the bolts that were used. They are F911 bolts, such as are used in the auto racing circuits. The shorter bolts holding the spacer to the engine flange look to be of high quality F911 bolts. The longer propeller bolts look to be cheap, even though they are stamped quite poorly with the F911 logo, and the plating is of a different color and is flaking off. There is some noise out there that there are bogus F911 bolts being made from China. Propeller bolts usually have rolled threads, not cut threads. Rolled threads are much stronger, up to 35%. Look at the picture and judge for yourself.

But the story doesn’t end there. I also had a chance to look a little closer at the whole aircraft. It clearly isn’t a show plane, but not all of them are, and there’s no problem with that. It’s what’s under the covers that counts. In this case, some of the findings were alarming, and should not have been missed on the prebuy. One intake tube had such a horrible leak that blue fuel stains were running down the intake tube and onto the valve cover drainback tube. Other intake gaskets were quite brittle.

The oil had not been changed in over 7 months. An unsecured, cheap, rubber coozy was used between the cowling and the engine intake, which fell off when the cowling was removed. All the engine controls were mounted to engine mount tubes rather than to the engine!!! No mention was made in the logbooks as to the status of the P-Mag SBs.

The fuel pump inlet and outlet fittings were sealed with RTV, and upon removal from the fuel pump, it was noted that the RTV had migrated into the fuel pump. This has the potential to cause a complete fuel blockage or restriction. The throttle linkage had been lengthened by using a brass turnbuckle, and of course it was missing a jamnut!

I hate to steal an old advertising line, “but wait, there’s more.” The new owner mentioned that the heater duct was only on the right side, and he had been cold in the pilot’s seat on the way home. I pointed out that the heater outlet was on the firewall on the co-pilot’s side, and he mentioned that hot air was coming from out of the vent on the copilot’s side, but nothing was coming out of the pilot’s side. I mentioned it was an outside air vent, and should have been cold air, but he was certain it was warm air. So, I traced the duct from the vent on the copilot’s side and couldn’t believe what I found. It was connected to a flipper valve on the firewall. When activated, it was allowing engine compartment warm air into the cabin! That’s a great source for carbon monoxide poisoning.

While I was tracing the right-side duct, I looked at the pilot’s side vent and couldn’t believe it either—- there was nothing connected to it at all. It was fake, from day one, clearly, as there were no NACA ducts on the aircraft, or any other source of fresh air. I can only imagine how hot and uncomfortable that cabin must have been on warm days.

We haven’t finished looking at everything yet, since the engine teardown will take 6-8 weeks, so we still have some time. I’m hoping we have discovered the worst of it. I feel for the new owner. Flying your newly purchased airplane home, only to have it immediately grounded and incur some unexpected expenses can put a real damper on the fun factor.

BTW, I saw the prebuy report. None of what is in this column was caught or mentioned.

Checkpoints column April 2018 Kitplanes Magazine

Prebuy inspection success tips.

By

 Vic Syracuse

 – 

April 20, 2018

There’s no doubt we have a strong economy in the U.S. right now, and I certainly see it reflected in the increasing number of prebuy inspections I am asked to perform on amateur-built aircraft. A fair number of those inspections are on uncompleted kits as well, and they seem to be selling due to life changes as opposed to selling for financial reasons.

Since the run rate of “failed” inspections seems to be holding at a constant 30%, I thought I’d spend some time sharing a few ideas with you in the hopes of reducing that number. Why? Well, I really hate it when the buyer is excited about a potential airplane purchase and then walks away due to problems discovered on the inspection. Usually, both parties end up disappointed, and it takes the joy out of an activity (flying) that is supposed to be fun, especially since amateur-built aircraft are really toys for which fun is the primary purpose. Of course, the FARs tell us that they are for education and relaxation, but that is another story.

Having a tire like this bald one doesn’t give anyone any confidence in the aircraft, especially for a potential new buyer that most likely will be doing lots of takeoffs and landings initially. The new nosewheel tire presents a different picture altogether.

Logbooks and Documentation

So let’s start with the initial conversations between the buyer and the seller. The buyer should be pointed with the seller about his/her wants and desires for an airplane. If the buyer wants a solid airframe that he/she can reliably count on to fly trips, then the discussions should center around maintenance practices on the airplane. A thorough review of the logbooks should be completed, and it is during this discussion and logbook inspection that red flags can be detected early on. I have seen logbooks that have only one annual entry denoting the condition inspection was completed. Really? When I query about any other maintenance being done, I am told that yes it was done, but they’ve heard one shouldn’t make any entries in logbooks other than the required entries. While I am not a lawyer, I really think this is totally bogus advice. Personally, I think it’s better to show that maintenance was performed in the event of a mechanical failure. But that aside, it’s nice to see documentation of maintenance, if for no other reason than to understand the history of the airplane.

By the way, as an owner, take the time to make sure that you have all of the required aircraft documents available, such as the registration, airworthiness certificate, and operating limitations. In the last year alone, I have seen way too many aircraft that did not have the operating limitations, and in one case the airworthiness certificate was nowhere to be found. If you happen to be the second or third owner, take the time to ensure the documents all match each other. In one instance, a subsequent owner changed the N-number on the aircraft, but the airworthiness certificate and operating limitations still reflected the original N-number. Issuance of a new airworthiness certificate and operating limitations is a quick and easy fix that can be performed by the local FSDO.

Spark plugs with this much lead in them typically haven’t been cleaned in a while. The gaps are large, and the electrodes are worn. These are easy to take care of prior to a prebuy inspection.

The other documentation that is important is the builder logs, not only for the airframe, but also for the engine, prop, and accessories. It’s good to know if the engine was built from new or if it was a local overhaul. Many engine accessories have time limits on them as well. As an example, Slick magnetos have a 500-hour service interval, and for engines with an impulse coupling on the magneto, that is a service interval that should not be overlooked.

Since we fly predominantly single-engine aircraft, the lineage of the propeller is really important. Was it new, overhauled, or ever involved in a prop strike? If there was a prop strike, was it on the current aircraft, and how was both the engine and the propeller inspected or repaired?

That being said, with scarce entries it’s hard to tell when routine maintenance was performed. Things such as spark plugs, filters, wheel bearings, hoses, brake pads, brake discs, etc., all have either life limits on them or maximum wear dimensions that should be checked. Many of the kit manufacturers, and even engine manufacturers, are very good at regularly publishing service bulletins. Some of those are minor, but sometimes they can be safety related. Things such as missing spar bolts, fuel pump and/or carburetor float bulletins are really important, and compliance with them should be well documented. The majority of buyers that I see are making the jump from certified aircraft to amateur-built aircraft, and documentation is important to them. Representing the aircraft as an Oshkosh award winner when, in reality, it has been through multiple owners and has been neglected with maintenance can be a real disappointment to the buyer when they show up. Be honest and upfront with the buyer if that is the case. Tell him/her that you’ve adjusted pricing accordingly, but do recognize some things need attention.

A brake disc with grooves that look like the rings of Saturn is not exactly confidence inspiring. This disc was on a 24-year-old RV and was close to exceeding the wear limits posted by the manufacturer. Grooves this deep are usually caused by the brake pads being worn down to the rivets.

First Impressions Matter

The majority of the successful inspections and sales I have been involved with all have some common threads that I’ve noticed. As with anything that is for sale, it all starts with the presentation, whether it is over the phone or in person. If the documentation is sparse or haphazard, it is usually a bad sign of things to come. One of the very first things I look at when I arrive is the organization of the hangar. It’s been my experience that if the hangar or workshop rivals a federal cleanup/hazardous waste dump project, then the airplane usually follows suit. Let’s face it, our airplanes can be dangerous toys if not properly constructed and maintained. If organization and attention to detail is not one of your strengths, you probably shouldn’t be building or maintaining an airplane. So, if you are selling, take a look around your workshop or hangar, and at least use the sale as an excuse to clean up. You may even find some parts you’ve been looking for! I’m not saying that a beautiful shop will hide an ugly airplane, but it at least gets things off to a good start.

Once you’ve got the shop cleaned up, start with the airplane. It should be clean, too, from the prop blades to the belly, and everything in between. Completing the cleanup with a coat of automotive Final Finish or equivalent can sure make a difference. You might even decide you want to keep it!

It’s disappointing to me when I see airplanes that have an engine compartment and belly that look like they haven’t been cleaned in years. Yes, many engines do normally leak some oil, but there is a distinct difference between leaking oil and accumulated grime. Interestingly enough, we sign off the condition inspection as in accordance with FAR part 43, which says the engine should be washed down each year. More than a few of the aircraft I have seen clearly hadn’t had that done. It’s very easy to tell which airplanes have had proper inspections and the right amount of TLC.

Hoses in the engine compartment should be checked for aging and brittleness. In this case, what looked to be the original vacuum line hose was over 24 years old and very brittle.

Tell the Truth

Don’t exaggerate any characteristics of the airplane because the discrepancies will be ferreted out by any reasonable inspection. Most recently, I had a seller tell me the spark plugs were in great shape and he never had any lead fouling. When I removed the lower plugs to perform a compression check, I discovered two different types of plugs, and there was so much lead and oil in them that they may have fouled on the next flight. When I asked what’s up with the two different plug types, the answer was that he hadn’t seen them and didn’t know why, yet it was his signature in the book for the last four condition inspections.

As a seller, you might consider performing a compression inspection yourself prior to the visit. It could save everyone from a bad experience. On a recent compression test that was reading 28/80 pounds, I discovered a burned valve clearly visible through the borescope. The air hissing out of the exhaust pipe during the compression test was a sure sign there was a potential valve problem, and we could have held off on the trip if it had been discovered ahead of time.

This particular airplane had just about one of everything unlabeled: switches, light, knobs, and circuit breakers! It was represented as an Oshkosh award winner, which it certainly was at one time. Even the wiring hanging down shows years of multiple owners and neglect.

While checking things over in the engine compartment, pay attention to life-limited items, such as hoses and magnetos. I’ve been seeing way too many airplanes that were built in the ’80s and ’90s that still have the original fuel and oil line hoses!

Tires and brakes are another area that gets neglected way too often. Many times it can be attributed to the tight-fitting wheel pants that really need to be removed for a thorough inspection. But whatever the reason, inspecting them prior to a sale should be paramount. So why do you think tires and brakes can be a factor? Well, think about it. What does every new owner of an airplane want to do first? Takeoffs and landings, of course, followed by rides with friends and family! So the last thing they want to do is to be saddled with replacing tires and brakes right away when they get home. So, be a good seller and take that item off of the table. I am not telling you as a seller that everything should be like new on the airplane. I am just recommending that the things that could play an emotional factor in the buying decision should be addressed. Wear and/or maintenance items that could impact the new owner’s enjoyment will play a role unless the buyer is looking for a project.

Engine controls are supposed to be labeled as to their function and operation.

Another item I find annoying is having unlabeled switches, lights, or circuit breakers in the panel. I know it’s easy to find ourselves changing things over the years that we own an airplane, and being amateur-built aircraft, anyone is allowed to work on them and make minor changes. That shouldn’t stop us from using best practices. Take the time to look at your airplane with a critical eye, from a buyer’s perspective, and most likely you will uncover some things that you didn’t notice as a builder/user. A good idea would be to download an inspection checklist from the internet on your particular airplane. Find one that you haven’t used before, as it may cause you to look at things in a different way. When you are finished, if you are the builder, you could even sign it off as a fresh condition inspection. If done properly, it will put the fun back into the sale.